Sunday, August 14, 2005

Conclusion-jumping Writ Large Answered

The Orthodox Temple of Satan, Inc.
Thanks to a few of Diane Vera's lackeys, our website was hacked into and deleted. It certainly is odd that the people who call us close minded and ignorant are the ones who must delete the sites of the groups they don't agree with, which is something we have NEVER done. Miss Crowley, Kathy, Rick, and anyone else who took part in this, you are worthless, spineless pieces of shit. And Diane, we don't know if you were directly involved in this, but even if you weren't, we hope you're happy with the idiot disciples you seem to have created. And for those of you who are friends with Miss Crowley over the net, you may like to know that Kathy, Rick, and others literally WORSHIP Miss Crowley as an earthly incarnation of the Goddess. She seems to lead some type of cult, possibly with S&M elements from what we heard from Rick, who has some odd, online sexual relationship with Miss Crowley (who he has never met in person), and he is "dominated by her in all ways", or so he says. Who knows how many other sad, pathetic people Miss Crowley abuses in this sort of way.Reprinted from the website of The Orthodox Temple of Satan.


Above is a statement published by Nero, owner of the Orthodox Temple of Satan on the OTOS website making many public accusations. This appeared as the only text on his website from July 15, 2005 for about two weeks or more.
Conspicuously absent from Nero's statement is any evidence for Nero's claim that that his site was hacked by Kathy, Rick, Diane or myself.

I am asking Nero now, "What is your basis for concluding that we were responsible ???"

As I see it, Nero's conclusions are, most likely, either a fabrication or a misunderstanding gleaned from rumors and hearsay.
Also, my personal relationships are not for public discussion and I find it very improper of Nero to have made them so, especially since he has a poor and limited understanding of them.

The "cult" of MizzCrowley???

Nero also has the gall to claim that I am leading a cult. As should be evident to anyone who has seen my postings in various forums, I do not display any of the attitudes characteristic of cults. Nero, on the other hand, in his policies for the OTOS does display many cultish attitudes, if one defines "cult" in accordance with Isaac Bonewits's "Cult Danger Evaluation Frame" and other noted cult evaluation frames. I have condensed some of the attributes here.

1.) Controlling of the personal life of the member as to whom one should marry.
2.) Wisdom/knowledge credited to leader, Dogmatism - claims that he has infallible personal authority he knows what Satan wants, what He says and what books are "His word".
3.) Implied approval of violence except for tactical practicality, hypocrisy due to breaking his own rules
4.) Isolation of members either due to forbidding affiliations with other groups or from general society due to preaching an agenda of alienation and anti-social attitude.
5.) Hostility toward external or internal critics, Grimness re:criticism from non-members.
6.) Drop-out control - Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
7.) Individual disempowerment by the leader of the group.
8.) Hypocrisy - amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical.

Here are only a few examples of how the teachings of the OTOS, which come entirely from Nero himself or his Arch Bishop Belphegor have several cultish attributes outlined in the Evaluation Frame.

In audio posts on both the former OTOS website and the current OTOS blog on "Generational Satanism," "The Temple's Views on Satanic Marriage," and "Satanism and sexuality," Nero urges members to marry only within the religion -- not just for such practical reasons as to avoid fights over how to raise the kids, but also for the sake of isolation. ("What you will have after succeeding generations is a Satanist who is pure, devoid of all Christian thought..a Satanist who has not been exposed to Christianity at all.")

The OTOS's main sacred text is the Al-Jilwah of the Yezidis. According to Nero on the former OTOS website, in the "Library : Sacred Texts," the Al Jilwah "is the word of Satan spoken to his people." Among other things the Al Jilwah forbids "friendly association" with "those who are without."

In Post #2 (July 19) on the current OTOS blog, Nero claims, "If you go to Diane's boards, they spend most of their time gossiping about other people." This is an outright falsehood. Diane Vera's forums prohibit unsubstantiated gossip. Most of her forums do allow and encourage discussion about the many different kinds of Satanism, and one of her forums (Theistic-Satanists-ethics-and-politics) also allows discussion (substantiated from public sources) about the organizational policies of Satanist groups. This is not gossip. That he sees it as such is an indication of his oversensitivity to criticism and scrutiny. Nero seems to condemn the very idea of open discussion of different forms of Satanism as indicating, allegedly, a lack of sincerity. ("They don't really care about Satan or Satanism, per se. They care about what other groups are doing and what other groups are saying and spreading lies about them and Diane allows it because Diane doesn't care about the truth. She cares about what Diane's interpretation of the truth is.")
In fact, Diane believes that one can reach intellectual maturity only by exploring a wide variety of ideas.

One of the OTOS's core doctrines is a blanket hatred of all "true Christians." In a post on Tue May 10, 2005 by 18-year-old " Archbishop Belphegor," who was then one of three members of the OTOS board of directors, one of the OTOS's three core beliefs was as follows:

"In our view, all true Christians (as opposed to your average, hypocrite,earthly, sinful "Christian") are living breathing pieces of the Christian god, and as such, must be despised. But, we do not advocate murdering Christians. The reason we are against this course of action is because it simply will do no good at this point. There's simply too many of them, and if you kill 1, 2 or even 500, all it will do is make the rest of them rally together. Christianity is a sick and twisted religion that has taught man to deny his natural desires for far too long. The Christian moral code is a pack of lies made to hold mankind back. The same holds true for any religion that teaches a moral code almost exactly the same as Jesus', for example, Buddhism. The moral code of Satanism is, in fact, extremely "evil" by christian standards. Everything Satan teaches IS the opposite of Chistianity. The same teachings shine through in the works of Crowley. We ARE the enemies of the Christians, and we can NEVER fully exist together peacefully. But, while we live in the society we do, we have to put up with their shit at least to some degree, or else we won't get anywhere. But, even still, there is never an excuse for changing Satanism just so it will be more accepted by the Christians. We don't want them to treat us like their family, and we want no part in their sickness as well."
Of course, Nero claims that "traditional Satanism" is the only true form of Satanism.

("The ones who do not acknowledge Satan are not the real Satanists". Audio post, Nero July 19, 2005 2:38 am, post #1.)

Now back to Nero's statement shown at the beginning of this post, indicating offical disapproval of an alleged alternative, private experience between two persons.:
"She seems to lead some type of cult, possibly with S&M elements from what we heard from Rick, who has some odd, online sexual relationship with MissCrowley (who he has never met in person), and he is "dominated by her in all ways", or so he says. Who knows how many other sad, pathetic people Miss Crowley abuses in this sort of way."

And yet Nero's public statement in his audio file is to the contrary:
From: The Temple's Views on Satanic Marriage "Our view in a nutshell is this: Any type of sexual intercourse between consenting adults is Okay. Satanists must be doing things of their own free will and they are doing what they want to and it is between consenting adults. Satanists must be doing something of their own free will and not pressured into it.You can have sex and sleep with whoever you want to."

Also in an email to Kathy Nero wrote regarding myself:"Even though we do not feel comfortable having her in this group, we refuse to resort to attacks based on personal issues such as sexual preferences and/or lifestyle choices."

Nero at one time was Rick's High Priest and, in confidence, Rick told him some personal information about himself. Nero told Rick that what he was telling him made him uncomfortable. Now he is breaching confidentiality, which should be a sacred trust between the High Priest and the member he is counseling. Now, not only is Nero making what he understood known to the public and showing his disapproval of it, but he is relating his erroneous understanding of it as well. What does this say of Nero's character and honor to do such a thing to an ex-member? Does he realize the responsiblities of his office which he has bestowed upon himself? I suppose it is fine to break a trust if it is self-serving.

Nero's present allegations about Diane Vera

Nero refers to Kathy, Rick, and myself as "a few of Diane Vera's lackeys." Does he define "Diane Vera's lackeys" as anyone in the entire Satanist scene who doesn't share his hatred of Diane Vera ??? If so, then there are an awful lot of "Diane Vera lackeys" out there. Can you spell conspiracy theory?
At the time Nero's site was allegedly hacked, I was a member of some of Diane Vera's forums, but I had very little contact with her. The same was true of Kathy. Rick had no contact with Diane at that time and was not a member of any of her forums. It seems to me that Nero, perhaps from past hatreds, paranoias and biases, has based his accusations on a level of association that did not exist.
Shortly AFTER Nero made his accusations, Diane did contact both Rick and myself. She and I will now be working closely together to address Nero's accusations.I am urging Nero that in the future, he might want to be more careful about spouting his opinions as alleged fact -- because they just might become self-fulfilling prophecies, at least to some extent. But I am still no "lackey" of Diane's or anyone else's. I think for myself and have my own views on theology and other matters.

Just because Nero has had past disputes with Diane's beliefs regarding Satan is no reason to jump to the huge conclusion that she has hacked or would approve of anyone hacking his group. I, personally, believe Diane did not and would not do this, nor would she advocate it. Nero has made various other accusations against DianeVera, both to me personally and in audio files onhis website and blog. He claims that she is not a Satanist and has had no personal experience with Satan and has never done a ritual. This, he told me, was derived from hearsay from another party, which we already know he misunderstands easily. How can he make public statements about a person when he has no proof of them? He cited no examples from the many articles on theistic Satanism on Diane's website. What Nero is giving is his opinion. Perhaps he should stipulate that and call it the commentary rhetoric that it is. The question is, why does he set himself up as the deciding authority on such a personal matter as another person's belief and faith? I have heard him make similar statements about FCOS, that they are not real Satanists, but LaVeyans and the same was said about COS. I find this arrogant fundamentalism that he has invented to be intolerant, judgemental religious bigotry.

Nero, present your evidence

Nero, you've made numerous, serious accusations against myself, Rick, Kathy, and Diane Vera. If there is any verifiable evidence for any of these accusations, it should be presented to us or to the public. Otherwise, an apology should be made to all parties.


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At 4:11 PM, Blogger Brother Myrmydon said...

Why does Diane want to see all the IP adresses of the people who visited the OToS? Surley this is the only way to prove that Rick was the beare of the IP adress that took down Nero's site. C'mon bitch, don't you think we are smarter than that? Nobody knows better than me that Diane is trying to monopolize the entire Traditional Satanism scene with he dagger under the blanket tactics. Shit, we were talking to her back before She even knew if she was a 'Theistic Satanist.' Poor little Diane always playing the victim. She's only lucky enough that she has stupid little lackeys like yourself to do her dirty work for her. Oh, by the way I am posting this response on my own blog so if you take it off of yours everyone will know how one sided you people are because although you claim to stand for tolerance and diversity, you work hard to supress the opinions of others.


At 10:19 PM, Blogger MizzCrowley said...

What indication have you ever seen that Diane wants to see anyone's IP numbers?
Rick emailed Nero regularly. That bore his IP number. What is so secret about that?
If you are inviting me to c'mon and bitch I am quite capable of it. You certainly showed you are in your comment.
I don't know how smart you are. I have not had much of a chance to face you except in a couple forums where our discussions were not appropriate or a hide and seek one you created.
How is Diane trying to Monopolize the Traditional Satanism scene? She claims to be Theistic, not Traditional.

No I am leaving your comment up, so everyone can see your posting manner and the indictments that are so far unsubstantiated.
You were never on any of my forums, so how could I ever suppress your opinion?

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